Red Hat & the Proliferation of the Open Development Model w/ Chung Kim

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Building proprietary software is an outdated business model. Open platforms, open API’s, open public clouds, open partnerships, and even open ecosystems are the wave of the future.

After all, when 99% of innovation happens outside of your organization, your best bet for survival is to tap into the innovation of the community.

In this episode, Chung Kim, Chief Architect at Red Hat, joins the show to talk about the advantages of the open development model and how it helps developers co-create while fostering inclusion, diversity, and teamwork across the industry.

Topics covered:

  • The appeal of the open development model
  • How Red Hat acts as a trusted advisor to clients
  • How edge computing will change the world
  • Common digital transformation challenges for companies

Want to hear more stories from high growth software companies? Subscribe to Application Modernization on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or check out our website. 

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You are listening to application modernization,a show that spotlights the forward thinking leaders of Higgro software companies. From scalingapplications and accelerating time to market to avoiding expensive license and costs, we discusshow you can innovate with new technology and forward thinking processes and save some cashin the process. Let's get into it. Thanks for listening to the application modernizationpodcast presented by Shatosoft. I'm your host, Nick Markarelli. Today wespoke to Chun Kim, chief architect at Red Hat. We've talked about allthe interesting products and solutions that red hat is providing to customers out in theecosystem today, how those products are making some huge differences in the way organizationsare doing business in the impact that technology is having on their core services.It was a really thoughtful conversation. Really enjoyed it. Give this a listenagain. This would be chunk him, chief architect at Red Hat. ThankRed Hat for their continued partnership and sponsor ship of the application modernization podcast.Today I've got a chunk Kim from red hat with us today. Chung,good to talk to you. How are you doing today? I'm thinking,wait, how about you me. You know, it's been a it's beena great day. Our team got together and did a Thanksgiving lunch, sowe're all stuffed and filled with Turkey. So wow, hopefully, hopefully,this conversation is you know, I'm keeping the energy up as we go throughthis. Yeah, probably should have picked up a time before lunch to dothis, but will power through. All right, I didn't have a lunchat but maybe target might be then my option for today. Then there yougo. It's in season for sure. All right. Well, Hey,thanks for joining. You know, been looking forward to this conversation. Peoplethat listen to the podcast know that red hat is a a contributor to makingthis podcast happen, where we talk about...

...customer stories and technology trends, andred hat is the forefront of that. So what I'd love to do,you know, just kind of the start off, is tell us a bitabout how you talk about Red Hat. Like red hats, value the market, the elevator pitch for Red Hat. Why? Why Red Hat is makingsuch a drastic impact for customers today. Sure, first of all, thanksfor having me here. I thanks me, and then before I'm going to answeringthat question, let me just into this myself, so people kind ofknow who I am absolutely. My name is Chung Kim. I'm a chiefarchitect with red at North America commercial. I have more than twenty five yearsof experience helping customers implement and the Christ solutions. And then, prior toready at, I was with Ibea for more than twenty years, so entireof my life I was either Ibammer or red air. So elvator pitch forReddit. Basically we do a lot of things, but a short version.But it is an enterprise software company with an open source development model. Nowour technology vision is open highway without so we deliver against that vision with thecomprehensive portfolio built on Linux and then the portfolio in cruise like avoid leading softieredtools and services, even training for Highbrid the cloud infrastructure and then cloud nativeapplication development and it management and automation. Gotcha not? It's great example ofthe portfolio for red hat today, something that you know shout us off.So premiere partner with Red Hat. So we're very familiar with your technology stackand helping customers leverage that what drew you to join rud at after spending anumber of years at IBM. It's kind of all cyclical. Now, Iguess right, because he's I've him acquired red hat. But what drove youtowards that? You know open development model...

...and you know the things that makered hat different? Yeah, that's actually good question. I often check thesocial side, like a Linkedin, Youtube, instagram, to get a feeling oftheir leadership, teams and employees in the leading IT companies. Right thengo and check the community side to see what customers or partners have to sayabout these companies. And then, most of which is the reflection of theirculture. For a redhead, the notion of open it's not just the expressionof how to develop software, it is actually reflection of the company's culture.And then redhead is the panicle of medical crassy. It is a place wherethat good ideas can come from anyone or anywhere, and the best ideas shouldwin. Right. I still only believe that Marito cresty will drive the futureof open space. And then this is a reason why I joined the redheadnow I'm so happy to be part of this great open organization. Gotcha.So you know, that's you know, What's interesting is when, when Igot into this business, eleven years ago, I came out of the used hardwareof our world. I would not call that, these days especially,the most exciting place to start your career. So when I made the move overhere and I remember my family going, Oh, you're change, you're changingto a new place. What are you guys doing? And I'm like, WE'RE gonna sell free software. That was what I understood about open source. Obviously I learned very quickly what that actually meant, you know. Soto see when I joined in what your was that two thousand and ten,you know, red hat was the one of the main players, if notthe only are in open source from an enterprise perspective. Yeah, I'Mout,you know some other things, but it you know. So it was kindof interesting. I got to cut my teeth on the growth around how redhat went to market. So it's interesting...

...to see all the expansion and opensources as a default in the market place, and a lot of that is dueto, I think, the way red at change the model in theenterprise. Right, that's actually enterprise often source. Open source like a modelhere. So let me ask you a question. Back to you, nick. So when you sure buying the bottom of the water. Right. Whatkind of a body of water you buy? You buy Poland spring, deer partor Abim? What do you buy? I'm actually this. I'm a littlewater guy, so usually a Topa Chico. Okay, but if Iwas going to do normal still water, II leaned to Sawny. That's anny. That's that is not the answer I was expecting, because that's any wasactually water made by manufacturing company, which is cocacola. Right, right forme, like a Rad at is more like spin water company. So right, you can get that sweet water for free if you got a mountain likeI pus or like a mountain in the main. Right, so you canget the free water. But the problem here is you can get the waterfrom there, but you can ability carry that water with to your house,delivered to you to having other Gud. They only basis, right. Ithink that's the kind of analogy I talking about. The opensors, so likeopen surs company number one. They have to search and find out the reallyvaluable water or clean water by hopping in the mountains, right, but notonly just to grab the water and the serving for the customer. They haveto claim the bottle. They have the hardening and to make sure to holdthe filtering and says is eatable water. Then they nicely package it and thenthey make a more commercial product and they actually serving debt water, either deliveredto the customer or put on the shop, on the commercial stores and the people, which is customers can buy and cons the water. So free water, it's a free soulfire up there.

But you need to hardening. Youshouldn't make a more commercial lies. I can make a productable, marketable productand use selling that to the customer. I think that's the our model.Not only ready if mode is a open source model for every conference. Kindof tried to do it right. So that's the way we works. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I think you know that's you know, that'sone of the things we spend time talking to customers about is that. Sure, you know you can, you can take free software and support it internally, but when your core businesses and technology, if it's, you know, insuranceor financial services or, you know you're a logistics company, that's prettyhard to do. Yeah, yeah, and red hat makes that a loteasier because they're doing all of that R and d around the source code.They're hardening the software for what would be appropriate for the enterprise today and makingthose investments in the community themselves. You know. I mean some of thebiggest contributors to open source projects are historically red hat and IBM, you know. So it's kind of funny. They're helping develop it, but they're alsocommercializing it for customers use. That is making it really easier to get itinto their workflow from an IT perspective. Right. So why don't you tellus, you know, whatever you'd like to talk about, but maybe waysyou're working with organizations today. As a red adder, I obviously know whereyou fit within the organization, but maybe you tell us about, you know, maybe some things that customers are asking or how you're helping customers on theirjourney and considering red hat things like that. So, yeah, asking how arewe working with other organization today's right, yeah, let's see it. Youknow, start answer. They's open source way. I'm going to talkabout the OAPEN source, but I found the red at is very unique.We delivered most sofisticated and Leny. It's...

...softies stack to probably the cloud economy, without owning that that as just saying that, in fact, that acommunity and see it right, and that is the essence of open source.We just support, we serving instead of we owning those software right. That'sthe way of the open source working. And then, together with that community, we drive innovation through the collaboration at a like spirit, like a fasterthan any other company in the market. And today's work. More than ninetynine percent of innovation always happens outside of your own company, and if youmiss the trick to leverage that innovation for your own purpose, you're left behind. That's a building proprietary software for own time, for own promise. Tous, this is an outdated, visious model like a open source, openplatforms, open Apis or public cloud, open partnership and even open ecosystems.That's the way of the future and the Redd is at the center of thatRed Revolution. And then open is what makes the people cooperated, coinnovate,cold created right. And the open is what initiate the new business models inthe new partnership. And then you ecosystems, and then open it what drive inclusionor diversity or team work. And Open also means the giving bad sounlatching the potential of developers and the business through the open technologies and they givingback the code to the open the starts community, as we talked about,will have a brow the impact on the self care in this fate. Andthen this is a how we work with there are any xastions? Hopefully,I I say if I said yeah, absolutely. You know, one ofthe things I think that's admirable about what red hat does is red hats businessright, they make money. Otherwise that otherwise we wouldn't know what red eyeis. But when red hat goes and...

...acquires other software companies and whomever they'reacquiring may not have an open model, they always open source it, whichI think is, you know, quite admirable, you know, because Ithink when you go pay x amount of dollars for something, you know you'reobviously you're buying you're buying Ip, you're buying something that maybe people want,and then the idea of turning over that source code and making that a partof the you know, upstream way that red hat operates is really cool andreally different and something we've seen not happen in, you know, larger technologyorganizations over the years. Technology is so focused on Ip, you know,red hat is focused on it would seem customer experience, you know, makingsure that they can leverage your your solutions in a way that is sustainable.We got it. Yep, good deal. So, given your you know,your years at IBM and your collection of yours Red Hat, I'm sureyou have a good, high impact story about red hat customer. You don'thave to name the customer, obviously, but maybe just a story about how, you know, a red hat technology change the way maybe they did businessfrom a use case perspectives. That something you can speak to. Why?Sure, maybe I can name the customers too, because this is already inthe public so okay, great many customers who appreciate us as a trusted adviserto resolve their challenges together. Right together is a key word. And thenI let me talk about one of our customers story. HCA Healthcare, alarge a healthcare provided in the US, has a lot of challenges on adaily basis trying to help their patient be healthy and stay alive. One ofthe things they decided that they really want you to focusing on was this challenge. I think the common flu profile looks...

...very similar to that of a Sepsis, which is a blood infection. Hopefully, you know what Sepsis is? Yep. So the challenge for the HCA in this case was differentiating between theFulu and Sepsis, and the doctors really need to be able to distingish withinthis too, in order to determine the severity when which they need to treatthe patient. Right. So the challenge for them was being able to buildai and ML models. They will help them look at the profile to understandits differences and then, in order to to that, they had to buildai and ML models. There will take a advantage of a public cloud byusing the scalability of data storage resources and building this model as they were doingmore testing so that they couldn't ask those models, and then once they actuallyinter with their patients, they can bring this model locally for the doctors inthe hospitals, you know, self contain the flat phone and that which iswhy they need a hybrid club. They wanted modeling to be done in thepublic cloud and the while completed ml models were using the hospital private clouds.And they wanted to make sure that the those who had the flu we gettraded for the flu and then those that had the sepsis can get in astorage and care they needed. So HCA and the readier teams use the openshift to create a scalable container based platform as a service foundation for spot.I think spot, that stand for sepsis prediction and optimization of therapy, tocollect and analyze clinical data in a rare time, to initiate all these sepsis care. So now, I believe...

...stop spot has deployed to more thanhundred sixty hospitalized nation. Right and then money telling about two, fot fivemillion patients and the doctors that even able to detect and identify sepsis up totwenty hours earlier, which is great. The beauty of this story is theydon't talk about it in terms of technology. Instead they talk about the number oflives that they say, right, and then it is a used casewhere the life at stay. And then this is a great example of thehighbrid clouds story, which is our mission, taking out advantage of a public cloudand delivering the service locally and the private cloud. Why seemlessly blending thetwo together? No, I mean that's a great point that you know,sometimes in technology we spend a lot of time talking about speeds and feeds,you know, going faster. Things like that were the real data for fora customer or someone who's serve in the community, is all was the actualimpact. So being able to make a diagnosis, you know, twenty hoursearlier means they could start treating twenty hours earlier, which means people will beless ill. Yep, which is a good thing right, and that's Ithink sometimes that's the having worked in tech my whole life, those of thestories we seek from customers to understand. You know, there's not a easydirect correlation between running open shift and live saved until you put those stories together, and I think in tech we actually have to do a better job ofthat. Is Not going. You know, this hospital system, they you know, they're using open shift to do lots of great things. That's kindof how we talk about it sometimes and we really need to be going becauseof their investment in certain technologies, in this case being open shift, they'reable to serve their customers in a way...

...that's far more efficient than other places, and that matters for longevity s sure, dat it very cool. Thanks forsharing that. So this is one of my favorite questions to ask.Anybody in Tacle love to ask this. If you were going to make abet. What do you think would be next in the innovation space? Itcould be anything, right, but you know what's what's the technology that youthink that could kind of take over the world, that push enterprise? Icould to the edge like a from using autonomous vehicles guided by ai or thevast sense, and that to works. Dad will lie on G for instantconnectivities and image instiva spins. Right. The intent is to bring the computingof the services close to the users or data service to improve the A scalability, with spons in this and their over experience, and then we can lookat the edge competing as the newest. I keep footprint becoming an extension ofa data center, like a bare metal or virtual environment, or like aprivate cloud and public cloud. Right. In a sense, the edgic computingis a summation of the other four print for print and the blending pieces fromeach to create the infrastructure aimed at tackling specific customer demand that traditional it modelscannot address. But unlike the other footprint, edge computing has a two key characteristicfactors. Is simply does not exist without the hybrid club. The foundationof edgic computing must be open all the right it will fail. And then, if edge competing is going to be a realistic feature for the enterprise itit needs both the highbrid cloud and the open source to drive edgic computing.Tons the concept of a cloud competing on...

...his head, where traditional cloud deploymentsare about centralizing on a single infrastructure that can scale up as a business needdictae, but edges focusing on scaling out mostly geographical. Right. So thiscould have be small service on a cell towers or sensors monitoring a global energynetwork or next generation factor automation system that anticipate the maintenance need. So whateverthe case, the need is the same, I believe, the faster responses formore timely services. So ebay, for example, it's adopting edge computingby decentralizing its data center with intend to create a faster and more consistent usualexperience by moving data and online services close to users. With a desparate natureof Egy Computing, consistency is kit on atucut deployment could theoretically be a hundredof or dowagens of a tiny sensors connected to the data gregation tier, whichhelped the provide a weird time feedback to what the censors are actually monitoring.It's fundamentally impossible to manage each of the deployment if they don't share a moresecure control platform via automation, management and orchestration. Right. So this consistencyis offered through the hybrid cloud, from Edgy devices to to the network,to the centralized data center, right, a high red cloud the deployment provides. It's anything what should be up technology, actual system. It gives to allthis a very componant, a common foundation, whether it said the nextso, but that a so as the...

...bill enabling it to cance like meand you too many dilligen stuff the network devices. Yeah, I mean,yeah, I mean, you know, edge is interesting because it's, youknow, it's say many years ago we would think of, you know,edge computing as my refrigerator is Internet ready, and you know, it was moreof the Iot play, which I think made sense to consumers, butsomeone who worked in technology it didn't make sense to me. I don't careif my refrigerator is connected to the Internet now, but now that I understandlike the fuller use case around that, you know, my refrigerator can talkto Samsong, for example, and say hey, your your compressor is startingto fail right, and it could alert them and then, you know,they can set up a service technician. And then someone you know emails meand Goes Hey, your compressor's family and we're going to come out and repairthis and this is under warranty. You know, that efficiency right there iskind of interesting. But you know, I think really what you know,kind of what you're speaking to when you talk about like G or, youknow, collection of sensor data, is the ability to process on side,right, which is super important. Right. It's can I prioritize certain Betcher orpieces of data to be processed there and then, you know, atsome point it will be shipped to a central system elsewhere, you know,for record keeping. So I think, you know, that use case isreally expanded. And now that we have you know, we can do openshift on the edge. You know, cuper nutties on the edge has beenthe thing people have been talking about. You know, red hat is founda way to make that happen. So that's, you know, pretty excitingfor the type of data metrics that will be getting from remote areas, whetherit be traffic metrics or, you know, making sure that cellular communication is workingor my refrigerator sending a repair or personnel to fix it. I meanthey like a home automature, which is...

Iot. Is a one of theexample of the ETI computing right, and they's more like a right customer faceand like the you or me, like a for example, my home,I have hobby to make everything as Iote. If you look at the my Alex, Alexa F, I have a more than hundred device I can controlby just asking how LEX that. So that's kind of easy one. Butlet's let's think about the automotive driving right. So then I touly relate to thenot only technology, same as like our AHC, a kind of example. It actually relates the humans. Light. What if you miss the make thedecision in a mainly second, then they'll will be cart crash. Theymeant there is chance that you might lose your life. Right. So they'realso be quiet as speed. If we don't have it like that edge competingmine. So I got that input and I have to send that back tothe our data stand there up there, and they got them Bispont it' istoo late. It happens, right. So we definitely need it's something processedon the spot in a very short time frame. I think that's kind ofthe example. Technology can improve the human life. Right, this is it, this is needed, this is future. I'm thinking, yeah, right,yeah, when you look at a Tesla, it's basically a computer withwheels. So you know, if you haven't had the chance to, youknow, rot around in one or you know dig into it and it's reallyquite fascinating. You know, it does software, updates your garage. Youknow, that's that's not something we've seen in kind of traditional transportation over theyears. It's definitely kind of leading the edge. I think everybody will startcatching yeah, but you know, they've changed the model on the way weview transportation. The software is actually just as important as the chassis and,you know, the battery in the engine. I mean, I'm still trying towrap my head around the fact that, you know, the Tesla doesn't havea will. Obviously it's Alectry,...

...but it's just it's very, veryfunny to think about. I think so got it well. So I alwayslike to ask this question too. So when you see customers on a journey, what is what is the common are the most common thing that you seecustomers struggle with. It is it, you know, education, adoption oftheir internal teams, culture, tail wagon, the dog. You know, there'sthere's there's all types of, I think, Challenges for organizations that aretrying to do something different in technology or trying to stay ahead of the curveor like just maybe, just slightly behind the curve. What's the thing thatyou see the most? I mean this is kind of a questions irrate alwayshear from the my customers especially, like I see a lovel people's and thenthere's an no right answer, right or wrong, as there's this is likea case by case, but if I remember correctly, Harvard business review ordefine the void domains that most companies that contemplating for the day. These aretransformation, like a technology, data process and organization are change capability. Ithink those are the Ford the maze, and then in most case they existin isolation. But that's a kind of a problem or challenges for most ofCorporate Americas. And then the real important stuff, from fading and communicating acompelling besion to crafting a plan and even like adjusting it on the fly,is a all about people. Right. So did your transformation requires talent,and then assembling the right team for technology, data and process who can work togethermaybe the single most important step.

And then I see that many ofmy customers as struggling to find a strong leader who can bring about this change. And I think that technology is the engine of a digital transformation. It'slike a my analogy, and the data is the gasoline to run the engine, and then process is the navigator, right, so if you get awrong navigator, you get a wrong right there. And then organ adjasional changecapability is that driving skill which you need those kind of a trend skill toto make the your digital transmate transformation successful. But we need to put them alltogether in order for success, not just the one out of four right. And then they must have functional wall together. I think that's what I'msaying here. Yeah, yeah, and that makes sense to me. Wesee that across our customers to it's everybody's got a different challenge or collection forall of them and you know, in a lot of cases it can beall of them. You got to have the right people, you gotta havethe right tools, you gotta have the right motivation. You know, there'skind of an old story here at chat us soft as we had a customerthat was really trying to understand how to get basically software out and releases quicker. And this this was, you know, seven, eight years ago, sobefore we had this plethora of you know, tooling and concepts and booksand, you know, leadership and technology, you know, touring the country tellingpeople how to, you know, do things successfully. So what wefound in some conversations is that the operations team, they were compensated on uptimes, as many operation teams are, but then the development team that had applicationsrunning on that operations teams, you know infrastructure, they're comped on future releases. So they are always at odds with each and they were wondering why theycouldn't get anything done. So we made...

...a recommendation. We said you shouldjust guarantee everybody's bonuses for that year and let them work together, you know, take away the takeaway the de incentivizing nature of how they get paid soyou can actually do some good work. And they did that and then itworked. Shocker, you know. So even something as much as you know, Compensation Plan for your staff can put your people at odds with each otherand not because they're being nefarious or, you know, the traditional ops doeswhat opps does, to have does what Dev does. It's because that's howthey make money, that's how they provide for their family or, you know, how they build a future. So you're going to make sure that youknow even the organizational things around how people are paid, in their structure andtheir KPI's aligned with the vision of the Comarty, or at least the ITorganization to start. So, you know, that was kind of something we sawthere and you know that's that was a large company, large sophisticated companythat does a lot of great things, you know, but in this littlegroup they had that little kind of bump there and they hadn't quite realized that, you know. So I think you're right. I think there's everybody's,you know, struggles with probably portions of these all the time and then neverreally go away. I think you got to build process and culture around thosethings. It's kind of a little one thing our wily want to emphasize here. Like people think technology, technology can drive that these are transformation. Frommy opinion, it's knowledge is a tool, but without the process, without thein update, I. Without the capability to willing to change that,they are going tod Asian never going to succeed. So technology is not onlyone factor to make a successful no, it's going to be all work together. Without that they will be no success. That's kind of what I loan.Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean technology is a tool. Ithink you put it the right way, the tool doesn't doesn't create change.It can help facilitate changes that are maybe...

...when you have a great tool,if you've done the how Te Unit. That's a problem here. It saysthat it's not a very good tool with right not not for where their eyesso well, Chong, this has been a great conversation. I really appreciateyour time, you know, spending with us, helping, you know,our greater customer base between shadows, soft and red ad here some stories abouthow you see the world and you know, I know our listeners will be,you know, happy to hear this discussion. Thank you so much forthe time. Thank thanks for having me here. Thank you all right.By application modernization is sponsored by Red Hat, the world's leading provider of enterprise opensource solutions, including high performing Linux, cloud, container and couper Neetti's technologies. Thanks for listening to application modernization, a podcast for high growth software companies. Don't forget to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast player soyou never miss an episode, and if you use apple podcasts, do usa favor and leave a click rating by tapping the stars. Join US onthe next episode to learn more about modernizing your infrastructure and applications for growth.Until next time,.

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