Red Hat & the Proliferation of the Open Development Model w/ Chung Kim

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Building proprietary software is an outdated business model. Open platforms, open API’s, open public clouds, open partnerships, and even open ecosystems are the wave of the future.

After all, when 99% of innovation happens outside of your organization, your best bet for survival is to tap into the innovation of the community.

In this episode, Chung Kim, Chief Architect at Red Hat, joins the show to talk about the advantages of the open development model and how it helps developers co-create while fostering inclusion, diversity, and teamwork across the industry.

Topics covered:

  • The appeal of the open development model
  • How Red Hat acts as a trusted advisor to clients
  • How edge computing will change the world
  • Common digital transformation challenges for companies

Want to hear more stories from high growth software companies? Subscribe to Application Modernization on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or check out our website. 

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You are listening to application modernization, a show that spotlights the forward thinking leaders of Higgro software companies. From scaling applications and accelerating time to market to avoiding expensive license and costs, we discuss how you can innovate with new technology and forward thinking processes and save some cash in the process. Let's get into it. Thanks for listening to the application modernization podcast presented by Shatosoft. I'm your host, Nick Markarelli. Today we spoke to Chun Kim, chief architect at Red Hat. We've talked about all the interesting products and solutions that red hat is providing to customers out in the ecosystem today, how those products are making some huge differences in the way organizations are doing business in the impact that technology is having on their core services. It was a really thoughtful conversation. Really enjoyed it. Give this a listen again. This would be chunk him, chief architect at Red Hat. Thank Red Hat for their continued partnership and sponsor ship of the application modernization podcast. Today I've got a chunk Kim from red hat with us today. Chung, good to talk to you. How are you doing today? I'm thinking, wait, how about you me. You know, it's been a it's been a great day. Our team got together and did a Thanksgiving lunch, so we're all stuffed and filled with Turkey. So wow, hopefully, hopefully, this conversation is you know, I'm keeping the energy up as we go through this. Yeah, probably should have picked up a time before lunch to do this, but will power through. All right, I didn't have a lunch at but maybe target might be then my option for today. Then there you go. It's in season for sure. All right. Well, Hey, thanks for joining. You know, been looking forward to this conversation. People that listen to the podcast know that red hat is a a contributor to making this podcast happen, where we talk about...

...customer stories and technology trends, and red hat is the forefront of that. So what I'd love to do, you know, just kind of the start off, is tell us a bit about how you talk about Red Hat. Like red hats, value the market, the elevator pitch for Red Hat. Why? Why Red Hat is making such a drastic impact for customers today. Sure, first of all, thanks for having me here. I thanks me, and then before I'm going to answering that question, let me just into this myself, so people kind of know who I am absolutely. My name is Chung Kim. I'm a chief architect with red at North America commercial. I have more than twenty five years of experience helping customers implement and the Christ solutions. And then, prior to ready at, I was with Ibea for more than twenty years, so entire of my life I was either Ibammer or red air. So elvator pitch for Reddit. Basically we do a lot of things, but a short version. But it is an enterprise software company with an open source development model. Now our technology vision is open highway without so we deliver against that vision with the comprehensive portfolio built on Linux and then the portfolio in cruise like avoid leading softiered tools and services, even training for Highbrid the cloud infrastructure and then cloud native application development and it management and automation. Gotcha not? It's great example of the portfolio for red hat today, something that you know shout us off. So premiere partner with Red Hat. So we're very familiar with your technology stack and helping customers leverage that what drew you to join rud at after spending a number of years at IBM. It's kind of all cyclical. Now, I guess right, because he's I've him acquired red hat. But what drove you towards that? You know open development model...

...and you know the things that make red hat different? Yeah, that's actually good question. I often check the social side, like a Linkedin, Youtube, instagram, to get a feeling of their leadership, teams and employees in the leading IT companies. Right then go and check the community side to see what customers or partners have to say about these companies. And then, most of which is the reflection of their culture. For a redhead, the notion of open it's not just the expression of how to develop software, it is actually reflection of the company's culture. And then redhead is the panicle of medical crassy. It is a place where that good ideas can come from anyone or anywhere, and the best ideas should win. Right. I still only believe that Marito cresty will drive the future of open space. And then this is a reason why I joined the redhead now I'm so happy to be part of this great open organization. Gotcha. So you know, that's you know, What's interesting is when, when I got into this business, eleven years ago, I came out of the used hardware of our world. I would not call that, these days especially, the most exciting place to start your career. So when I made the move over here and I remember my family going, Oh, you're change, you're changing to a new place. What are you guys doing? And I'm like, WE'RE gonna sell free software. That was what I understood about open source. Obviously I learned very quickly what that actually meant, you know. So to see when I joined in what your was that two thousand and ten, you know, red hat was the one of the main players, if not the only are in open source from an enterprise perspective. Yeah, I'Mout, you know some other things, but it you know. So it was kind of interesting. I got to cut my teeth on the growth around how red hat went to market. So it's interesting...

...to see all the expansion and open sources as a default in the market place, and a lot of that is due to, I think, the way red at change the model in the enterprise. Right, that's actually enterprise often source. Open source like a model here. So let me ask you a question. Back to you, nick. So when you sure buying the bottom of the water. Right. What kind of a body of water you buy? You buy Poland spring, deer part or Abim? What do you buy? I'm actually this. I'm a little water guy, so usually a Topa Chico. Okay, but if I was going to do normal still water, II leaned to Sawny. That's anny. That's that is not the answer I was expecting, because that's any was actually water made by manufacturing company, which is cocacola. Right, right for me, like a Rad at is more like spin water company. So right, you can get that sweet water for free if you got a mountain like I pus or like a mountain in the main. Right, so you can get the free water. But the problem here is you can get the water from there, but you can ability carry that water with to your house, delivered to you to having other Gud. They only basis, right. I think that's the kind of analogy I talking about. The opensors, so like open surs company number one. They have to search and find out the really valuable water or clean water by hopping in the mountains, right, but not only just to grab the water and the serving for the customer. They have to claim the bottle. They have the hardening and to make sure to hold the filtering and says is eatable water. Then they nicely package it and then they make a more commercial product and they actually serving debt water, either delivered to the customer or put on the shop, on the commercial stores and the people, which is customers can buy and cons the water. So free water, it's a free soulfire up there.

But you need to hardening. You shouldn't make a more commercial lies. I can make a productable, marketable product and use selling that to the customer. I think that's the our model. Not only ready if mode is a open source model for every conference. Kind of tried to do it right. So that's the way we works. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I think you know that's you know, that's one of the things we spend time talking to customers about is that. Sure, you know you can, you can take free software and support it internally, but when your core businesses and technology, if it's, you know, insurance or financial services or, you know you're a logistics company, that's pretty hard to do. Yeah, yeah, and red hat makes that a lot easier because they're doing all of that R and d around the source code. They're hardening the software for what would be appropriate for the enterprise today and making those investments in the community themselves. You know. I mean some of the biggest contributors to open source projects are historically red hat and IBM, you know. So it's kind of funny. They're helping develop it, but they're also commercializing it for customers use. That is making it really easier to get it into their workflow from an IT perspective. Right. So why don't you tell us, you know, whatever you'd like to talk about, but maybe ways you're working with organizations today. As a red adder, I obviously know where you fit within the organization, but maybe you tell us about, you know, maybe some things that customers are asking or how you're helping customers on their journey and considering red hat things like that. So, yeah, asking how are we working with other organization today's right, yeah, let's see it. You know, start answer. They's open source way. I'm going to talk about the OAPEN source, but I found the red at is very unique. We delivered most sofisticated and Leny. It's...

...softies stack to probably the cloud economy, without owning that that as just saying that, in fact, that a community and see it right, and that is the essence of open source. We just support, we serving instead of we owning those software right. That's the way of the open source working. And then, together with that community, we drive innovation through the collaboration at a like spirit, like a faster than any other company in the market. And today's work. More than ninety nine percent of innovation always happens outside of your own company, and if you miss the trick to leverage that innovation for your own purpose, you're left behind. That's a building proprietary software for own time, for own promise. To us, this is an outdated, visious model like a open source, open platforms, open Apis or public cloud, open partnership and even open ecosystems. That's the way of the future and the Redd is at the center of that Red Revolution. And then open is what makes the people cooperated, coinnovate, cold created right. And the open is what initiate the new business models in the new partnership. And then you ecosystems, and then open it what drive inclusion or diversity or team work. And Open also means the giving bad so unlatching the potential of developers and the business through the open technologies and they giving back the code to the open the starts community, as we talked about, will have a brow the impact on the self care in this fate. And then this is a how we work with there are any xastions? Hopefully, I I say if I said yeah, absolutely. You know, one of the things I think that's admirable about what red hat does is red hats business right, they make money. Otherwise that otherwise we wouldn't know what red eye is. But when red hat goes and...

...acquires other software companies and whomever they're acquiring may not have an open model, they always open source it, which I think is, you know, quite admirable, you know, because I think when you go pay x amount of dollars for something, you know you're obviously you're buying you're buying Ip, you're buying something that maybe people want, and then the idea of turning over that source code and making that a part of the you know, upstream way that red hat operates is really cool and really different and something we've seen not happen in, you know, larger technology organizations over the years. Technology is so focused on Ip, you know, red hat is focused on it would seem customer experience, you know, making sure that they can leverage your your solutions in a way that is sustainable. We got it. Yep, good deal. So, given your you know, your years at IBM and your collection of yours Red Hat, I'm sure you have a good, high impact story about red hat customer. You don't have to name the customer, obviously, but maybe just a story about how, you know, a red hat technology change the way maybe they did business from a use case perspectives. That something you can speak to. Why? Sure, maybe I can name the customers too, because this is already in the public so okay, great many customers who appreciate us as a trusted adviser to resolve their challenges together. Right together is a key word. And then I let me talk about one of our customers story. HCA Healthcare, a large a healthcare provided in the US, has a lot of challenges on a daily basis trying to help their patient be healthy and stay alive. One of the things they decided that they really want you to focusing on was this challenge. I think the common flu profile looks...

...very similar to that of a Sepsis, which is a blood infection. Hopefully, you know what Sepsis is? Yep. So the challenge for the HCA in this case was differentiating between the Fulu and Sepsis, and the doctors really need to be able to distingish within this too, in order to determine the severity when which they need to treat the patient. Right. So the challenge for them was being able to build ai and ML models. They will help them look at the profile to understand its differences and then, in order to to that, they had to build ai and ML models. There will take a advantage of a public cloud by using the scalability of data storage resources and building this model as they were doing more testing so that they couldn't ask those models, and then once they actually inter with their patients, they can bring this model locally for the doctors in the hospitals, you know, self contain the flat phone and that which is why they need a hybrid club. They wanted modeling to be done in the public cloud and the while completed ml models were using the hospital private clouds. And they wanted to make sure that the those who had the flu we get traded for the flu and then those that had the sepsis can get in a storage and care they needed. So HCA and the readier teams use the open shift to create a scalable container based platform as a service foundation for spot. I think spot, that stand for sepsis prediction and optimization of therapy, to collect and analyze clinical data in a rare time, to initiate all these seps is care. So now, I believe...

...stop spot has deployed to more than hundred sixty hospitalized nation. Right and then money telling about two, fot five million patients and the doctors that even able to detect and identify sepsis up to twenty hours earlier, which is great. The beauty of this story is they don't talk about it in terms of technology. Instead they talk about the number of lives that they say, right, and then it is a used case where the life at stay. And then this is a great example of the highbrid clouds story, which is our mission, taking out advantage of a public cloud and delivering the service locally and the private cloud. Why seemlessly blending the two together? No, I mean that's a great point that you know, sometimes in technology we spend a lot of time talking about speeds and feeds, you know, going faster. Things like that were the real data for for a customer or someone who's serve in the community, is all was the actual impact. So being able to make a diagnosis, you know, twenty hours earlier means they could start treating twenty hours earlier, which means people will be less ill. Yep, which is a good thing right, and that's I think sometimes that's the having worked in tech my whole life, those of the stories we seek from customers to understand. You know, there's not a easy direct correlation between running open shift and live saved until you put those stories together, and I think in tech we actually have to do a better job of that. Is Not going. You know, this hospital system, they you know, they're using open shift to do lots of great things. That's kind of how we talk about it sometimes and we really need to be going because of their investment in certain technologies, in this case being open shift, they're able to serve their customers in a way...

...that's far more efficient than other places, and that matters for longevity s sure, dat it very cool. Thanks for sharing that. So this is one of my favorite questions to ask. Anybody in Tacle love to ask this. If you were going to make a bet. What do you think would be next in the innovation space? It could be anything, right, but you know what's what's the technology that you think that could kind of take over the world, that push enterprise? I could to the edge like a from using autonomous vehicles guided by ai or the vast sense, and that to works. Dad will lie on G for instant connectivities and image instiva spins. Right. The intent is to bring the computing of the services close to the users or data service to improve the A scalability, with spons in this and their over experience, and then we can look at the edge competing as the newest. I keep footprint becoming an extension of a data center, like a bare metal or virtual environment, or like a private cloud and public cloud. Right. In a sense, the edgic computing is a summation of the other four print for print and the blending pieces from each to create the infrastructure aimed at tackling specific customer demand that traditional it models cannot address. But unlike the other footprint, edge computing has a two key characteristic factors. Is simply does not exist without the hybrid club. The foundation of edgic computing must be open all the right it will fail. And then, if edge competing is going to be a realistic feature for the enterprise it it needs both the highbrid cloud and the open source to drive edgic computing. Tons the concept of a cloud competing on...

...his head, where traditional cloud deployments are about centralizing on a single infrastructure that can scale up as a business need dictae, but edges focusing on scaling out mostly geographical. Right. So this could have be small service on a cell towers or sensors monitoring a global energy network or next generation factor automation system that anticipate the maintenance need. So whatever the case, the need is the same, I believe, the faster responses for more timely services. So ebay, for example, it's adopting edge computing by decentralizing its data center with intend to create a faster and more consistent usual experience by moving data and online services close to users. With a desparate nature of Egy Computing, consistency is kit on atucut deployment could theoretically be a hundred of or dowagens of a tiny sensors connected to the data gregation tier, which helped the provide a weird time feedback to what the censors are actually monitoring. It's fundamentally impossible to manage each of the deployment if they don't share a more secure control platform via automation, management and orchestration. Right. So this consistency is offered through the hybrid cloud, from Edgy devices to to the network, to the centralized data center, right, a high red cloud the deployment provides. It's anything what should be up technology, actual system. It gives to all this a very componant, a common foundation, whether it said the next so, but that a so as the...

...bill enabling it to cance like me and you too many dilligen stuff the network devices. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, you know, edge is interesting because it's, you know, it's say many years ago we would think of, you know, edge computing as my refrigerator is Internet ready, and you know, it was more of the Iot play, which I think made sense to consumers, but someone who worked in technology it didn't make sense to me. I don't care if my refrigerator is connected to the Internet now, but now that I understand like the fuller use case around that, you know, my refrigerator can talk to Samsong, for example, and say hey, your your compressor is starting to fail right, and it could alert them and then, you know, they can set up a service technician. And then someone you know emails me and Goes Hey, your compressor's family and we're going to come out and repair this and this is under warranty. You know, that efficiency right there is kind of interesting. But you know, I think really what you know, kind of what you're speaking to when you talk about like G or, you know, collection of sensor data, is the ability to process on side, right, which is super important. Right. It's can I prioritize certain Betcher or pieces of data to be processed there and then, you know, at some point it will be shipped to a central system elsewhere, you know, for record keeping. So I think, you know, that use case is really expanded. And now that we have you know, we can do open shift on the edge. You know, cuper nutties on the edge has been the thing people have been talking about. You know, red hat is found a way to make that happen. So that's, you know, pretty exciting for the type of data metrics that will be getting from remote areas, whether it be traffic metrics or, you know, making sure that cellular communication is working or my refrigerator sending a repair or personnel to fix it. I mean they like a home automature, which is...

Iot. Is a one of the example of the ETI computing right, and they's more like a right customer face and like the you or me, like a for example, my home, I have hobby to make everything as Iote. If you look at the my Alex, Alexa F, I have a more than hundred device I can control by just asking how LEX that. So that's kind of easy one. But let's let's think about the automotive driving right. So then I touly relate to the not only technology, same as like our AHC, a kind of example. It actually relates the humans. Light. What if you miss the make the decision in a mainly second, then they'll will be cart crash. They meant there is chance that you might lose your life. Right. So they're also be quiet as speed. If we don't have it like that edge competing mine. So I got that input and I have to send that back to the our data stand there up there, and they got them Bispont it' is too late. It happens, right. So we definitely need it's something processed on the spot in a very short time frame. I think that's kind of the example. Technology can improve the human life. Right, this is it, this is needed, this is future. I'm thinking, yeah, right, yeah, when you look at a Tesla, it's basically a computer with wheels. So you know, if you haven't had the chance to, you know, rot around in one or you know dig into it and it's really quite fascinating. You know, it does software, updates your garage. You know, that's that's not something we've seen in kind of traditional transportation over the years. It's definitely kind of leading the edge. I think everybody will start catching yeah, but you know, they've changed the model on the way we view transportation. The software is actually just as important as the chassis and, you know, the battery in the engine. I mean, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that, you know, the Tesla doesn't have a will. Obviously it's Alectry,...

...but it's just it's very, very funny to think about. I think so got it well. So I always like to ask this question too. So when you see customers on a journey, what is what is the common are the most common thing that you see customers struggle with. It is it, you know, education, adoption of their internal teams, culture, tail wagon, the dog. You know, there's there's there's all types of, I think, Challenges for organizations that are trying to do something different in technology or trying to stay ahead of the curve or like just maybe, just slightly behind the curve. What's the thing that you see the most? I mean this is kind of a questions irrate always hear from the my customers especially, like I see a lovel people's and then there's an no right answer, right or wrong, as there's this is like a case by case, but if I remember correctly, Harvard business review or define the void domains that most companies that contemplating for the day. These are transformation, like a technology, data process and organization are change capability. I think those are the Ford the maze, and then in most case they exist in isolation. But that's a kind of a problem or challenges for most of Corporate Americas. And then the real important stuff, from fading and communicating a compelling besion to crafting a plan and even like adjusting it on the fly, is a all about people. Right. So did your transformation requires talent, and then assembling the right team for technology, data and process who can work together maybe the single most important step.

And then I see that many of my customers as struggling to find a strong leader who can bring about this change. And I think that technology is the engine of a digital transformation. It's like a my analogy, and the data is the gasoline to run the engine, and then process is the navigator, right, so if you get a wrong navigator, you get a wrong right there. And then organ adjasional change capability is that driving skill which you need those kind of a trend skill to to make the your digital transmate transformation successful. But we need to put them all together in order for success, not just the one out of four right. And then they must have functional wall together. I think that's what I'm saying here. Yeah, yeah, and that makes sense to me. We see that across our customers to it's everybody's got a different challenge or collection for all of them and you know, in a lot of cases it can be all of them. You got to have the right people, you gotta have the right tools, you gotta have the right motivation. You know, there's kind of an old story here at chat us soft as we had a customer that was really trying to understand how to get basically software out and releases quicker. And this this was, you know, seven, eight years ago, so before we had this plethora of you know, tooling and concepts and books and, you know, leadership and technology, you know, touring the country telling people how to, you know, do things successfully. So what we found in some conversations is that the operations team, they were compensated on uptimes, as many operation teams are, but then the development team that had applications running on that operations teams, you know infrastructure, they're comped on future releases. So they are always at odds with each and they were wondering why they couldn't get anything done. So we made...

...a recommendation. We said you should just guarantee everybody's bonuses for that year and let them work together, you know, take away the takeaway the de incentivizing nature of how they get paid so you can actually do some good work. And they did that and then it worked. Shocker, you know. So even something as much as you know, Compensation Plan for your staff can put your people at odds with each other and not because they're being nefarious or, you know, the traditional ops does what opps does, to have does what Dev does. It's because that's how they make money, that's how they provide for their family or, you know, how they build a future. So you're going to make sure that you know even the organizational things around how people are paid, in their structure and their KPI's aligned with the vision of the Comarty, or at least the IT organization to start. So, you know, that was kind of something we saw there and you know that's that was a large company, large sophisticated company that does a lot of great things, you know, but in this little group they had that little kind of bump there and they hadn't quite realized that, you know. So I think you're right. I think there's everybody's, you know, struggles with probably portions of these all the time and then never really go away. I think you got to build process and culture around those things. It's kind of a little one thing our wily want to emphasize here. Like people think technology, technology can drive that these are transformation. From my opinion, it's knowledge is a tool, but without the process, without the in update, I. Without the capability to willing to change that, they are going tod Asian never going to succeed. So technology is not only one factor to make a successful no, it's going to be all work together. Without that they will be no success. That's kind of what I loan. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean technology is a tool. I think you put it the right way, the tool doesn't doesn't create change. It can help facilitate changes that are maybe...

...when you have a great tool, if you've done the how Te Unit. That's a problem here. It says that it's not a very good tool with right not not for where their eyes so well, Chong, this has been a great conversation. I really appreciate your time, you know, spending with us, helping, you know, our greater customer base between shadows, soft and red ad here some stories about how you see the world and you know, I know our listeners will be, you know, happy to hear this discussion. Thank you so much for the time. Thank thanks for having me here. Thank you all right. By application modernization is sponsored by Red Hat, the world's leading provider of enterprise open source solutions, including high performing Linux, cloud, container and couper Neetti's technologies. Thanks for listening to application modernization, a podcast for high growth software companies. Don't forget to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast player so you never miss an episode, and if you use apple podcasts, do us a favor and leave a click rating by tapping the stars. Join US on the next episode to learn more about modernizing your infrastructure and applications for growth. Until next time,.

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