Innovating Fast To Meet Changing Customer Needs w/ Josh Bregman

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Prior to 2020, Josh Bregman, Chief Operating Officer at Cyglass, and his team spent a large amount of time building out a SaaS multi-tenant architecture with containers, Kubernetes, and DevOps practices.

When COVID hit, that investment paid off in a big way because it allowed them to innovate quickly as the needs of their customers changed.

In this episode, we talk about:

  • How CyGlass has adapted quickly to changing customer needs
  • How DevOps and Kubernetes enables speed and agility
  • Advice for software leaders looking to innovate faster

Want to hear more stories from high growth software companies? Subscribe to Application Modernization on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or check out our website.

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You are listening to application modernization,a show that spotlights the forward thinking leaders of higro software companies. From scalingapplications and accelerating time to market to avoiding expensive license and costs, we discusshow you can innovate with new technology and forward thinking processes and save some cashin the process. Let's get into it. Hello and welcome to application modernization.Today we're talking to Josh Bregman about innovating quickly to meet changing customer needs. Josh Bregman is chief operating officer at side glass, a leading provider ofnetwork centric threat detection solutions. Side glass is used by small to medium sizedcompanies to uncover, pinpoint and respond to advanced cyber threats that have evaded traditionalsecurity controls. In this episode, will discuss how Covid has impacted the businessand learn how side glass has quickly adapted to the changing customer needs. Joshwill share how side glass is well architected, containerized environment and develops processes allowed thecompany to quickly release new features to meet these changing needs and stay competitive. Here we go with our guest, Josh Bregman. Hi Ush, welcometo the PODCAST. How are you today? Good Ross A, thanks so muchfor having me on. Yeah, really excited to hear about your journeytoday. Let's start off with a little bit about side gloss. And whatdo you do? Yeah, sure. So side glass is network defense asa service, which means that we monitor customers networks for anomalies and threats.We do that through set of artificial intelligence and machine learning that we built outover the past decade. We think our...

...secret sauce is that we do allof this processing actually up in the cloud. We're actually deployed globally and six regionsof actually eight reasons down of Amazon Web web services. Part of whatwe've learned, kind of I've been in a side glass for the last fouryears, is that, you know, getting this traffic from people's networks isactually quite hard. Networks are sort of complicated things. They've been built upover some period of time. In a lot of cases the person who builtthe network isn't even there anymore, and so just having something which which goesup without any additional hardware or software, which is really our kind of Aha, using a technology called netflow. Right. So netflow is a standard network monitoringprotocol. It's invented by CISCO. It's been out there for a longtime, but only recently really have people, ourselves include, have been using thisfor a nomaly detection and so it's sort of challenging data science problem whichwe can sort of talk about. But you know, really from a customersperspective, this is something that runs on their existing network, sends the trafficsecurely, confidentially up into our SASS application and then, you know, themachines do the work. We look for weird behavior, suspicious behavior, threatenedbehavior, and then we alert them or their sock team or their MSSP,and we can even take a remediate of action like disabling the user, closingup our wall, and we wrap all this in a really nice SASS experience, I'd say, headlined by some really it's going to sound nerdy, butit's really great reports. You know, with the one of the things thatpeople forget is a lot of times these businesses run on reports that cybersecurity teams, particularly its small businesses, are trying to show people what they're doing,prove that they're doing a great job, comply with rules and regulations, andso just like building those reports typically, almost historically, has been really painfuland so we just know that it's something that really resonates with customers. Sothe fact that it goes up easy, it's delivers value right away and thenyou keep them safe and then they can...

...show people that it's a good useof time and money has really resonated for the small medium enterprise customers that we'vethat we've been targeting. Right. So, working at a company and I receivean email and click on it and it's ransomware. Is is that anexample ample of something that you can help people with? Yeah, absolutely right. So all of these things are the sort of what's been happened. ransomwareis the thing which has been making the news, but the reality is isthat the over the last year, particularly the time of Covid, we justsee a huge spike in sophisticated attackers, you know, going after you smallerand smaller companies. Right. So, if you think about being a verylarge enterprise, a very large financial services institution, that company might have,you know, five hundred or a thousand people and their information security, theircyberscurty function, they might run as many as two hundred and fifty tools andthey've got twenty four by seven monitoring they've got a sock. I mean thisis a serious endeavor from a cyberscurity perspective, because they have to other highly regulatedand they've got, you know, trillions of dollars in assets. So, if you are a bad guy, would you want to like go afterthat, or would you go after, you know, the local county,right, or would you go after the regional bank? Or would you goafter the small manufacturer? Because, to be honest, those companies just don'thave the same resources available to them. They're just, honestly not as big, the teams are smaller, and so, like a lot of the tools thathave been built really, I've been honestly, been build for these hugecompanies and so it's really left what we always saw is the opportunity at sidelass was to go help these small, medium enterprizes solve this ever increasing threat. So your ransomware, you know what...

...you talked about as effectively a fishingattack, right, where I get an email, efficient emails getting me toclick on it. Right. The whole idea there is that in general companieshave a set of perimeter defenses, not firewalls, you know, etc.VPNS, and you're trying to get behind them to get to the soft bellyof the network and get to the good stuff, right, the good stuffmeeting the critical customer information or, on the case of something like ransom wherethe sensitive information that you're willing to pay money to get back from right.So fishing is one way that people get behind there. The thing about modernransomware and the end these attacks is, you know, like in the movies, they happen like, you know, like that, but the reality is, if you're an attacker and you stumble into somebody's network and your mission isto find their sensitive information in crypt it, send it, you know, basicallyencrypted in such a way that you don't get noticed and then hold itfor ransom, that whole process doesn't happen in like eight seconds. Right.That might take, depending upon you know, which study you read, thirty daysfor you, days, sixty days. It takes days, right, becausethey show up on your network and they don't really know where, youknow, the the good stuff is. Right, the fiscal example there wouldbe imagine, you know, if a burglar was breaking into an office andthey had to find the right file cabinet. I mean it would take a while. It was a big office. You know. And so what thatprovides is lots of opportunities, if you're actually monitoring that network, to say, well, that's all. You know, well, that's weird. I've nevernoticed that machine talking to that machine before in that way or over thatprotocol. You know, one one thing that we've learned from analyzing sort ofwhat bad guys do. It's, you know, sometimes like they'll use othersecurity tools that are normally used by good...

...guys to do bad stuff. Right, so security tools running it weird times or running by people who aren't authorizedfor in most companies. What they're really trying to go at. The goalthere is to go after the act of directory, the domain controller, becausethe domain controller to get privilege credentials right, become an administrator and then go atand then go to the main controller and then from the domain controller youcan basically do anything. And so looking for anomalous activity on that Active DirectoryServer, I like all of these things, if you're actually watching it, cangive you the opportunity to stop it before the ransom happens or honestly,even earlier, because now what's happening, unfortunately, with ransomware is it that'ssort of double threat. which is basically hey, I've got your stuff,pay the ransom and you're like no, we're not going to do it.They're like okay, that's cool, but I've got all your customer data andif you don't pay the ransom, I'm going to release your customer data.And, Oh, by the way, it's HIPPA. So each customer recordsgot a huge fine. So it's sort of it sort of puts companies inan impossible position. So the idea here is that by, you know,using artificial intelligence machine learning, it's actually really great application the technology because evenin a smaller company, these networks are massively complicated. You'll see my previouscomment about how they're set up and you know, so for a person tosort of, you know, look at stuff and look at alerts and tryto understand what's normal and respond is just impossible. It's a really thing.That's not a recipe for like, you know, personal success, career growth, happy employees. So people don't do it right. So what we're doingis we're monitoring this network basically twenty four by seven for you, and lookingfor the types of things that attackers would do if they were going to doa ransomware or more and more, these supply chain attacks. I think everybodysort of Hurd solar wins, where just people are coming in through weird waysand because we know normal on your network,...

...we can alert you and then wecan take remediate of action. So that a little bit of a roundaboutanswer. But like there's a whole class of these things that bad guys havebasically figured out how to get on your network. You can no longer justassume that you're going to keep them off, and so the game is, canI spot them once they're there quickly and take some action before they doreal damage? Right? Right, so you got to be proactively monitoring yournetwork to prevent these types of you know, ransomware. Yeah, I mean theonly the only word I would parse theirs, I would say detect.So, like, okay, me, which is it's a subtle point,but you know, if you think about it from an information security perspective,there are always a set of protective controls, right, I'm never at people shouldhave firewalls, right, they should have anti virus, like these arethings that like stopp thing from happening. And what that effect we does?It just raises the bar for the sophistication of the of the attack. Butunfortunately, just it's becoming easier and easier for less skilled people to launch moresophisticated attacks and therefore they're there. They're just targeting smaller and smaller companies,and so we just think it's what we've seen as the opportunity, unfortunately,is or really the need there is to is to provide this kind of sophisticateddetection capabilities to the mid market. Got It. Got It. So whenwe smoke a fun earlier, you really should shed a story around the changingmarket place at the last twelve months with covid and walk from home, like, how has the market change and what is sidegloss done to quickly adapt tochanging customer needs? Yeah, so you know, side glass, right,network defense as a service, and we were doing quite well with this.Like you know, network is a sort of interesting term. SISSA when theyissue their alerts this as the Information Security...

Agency for the US, and theythey're right. They say network defenders. Right, so network defenders the sortof a generic term for someone who helps keep a company's net we're saying,but I think the thing that we're we've all realized is that you know,what is a company and what is a network has sort of been shifting forsome time. Obviously people have been using saspace services like officerr sixty five orsales force. People have been using infrastructures, a service like aws, as you'rethat that's all. That's all been happening for some period of time.When covid hit, you know, in the states here, like last March, I think, after the sort of initial shock, kind of through thesummer, we just saw this massive acceleration of movement to the cloud, youknow. So everybody was working from home and so they weren't in the officeand so the places where sort of what the office was was was changing,and a lot of it. We saw a huge uptake in in a couplethings, right. One was a VPNS, right. So you know last yearthe thing twelve to be fair, the first part of the year,the thing you wanted to be selling was laptops, right. I mean youand I work in technology. We think of course, you know, everybody'sgot a laptop. Everybody's just like working from home now. So that wasthe first thing you wanted to be selling. was like, you know, leftlike literally the the machines let you go work at home, and thenyou know anti virus and then you know remote working kind of connectivity software likeoffice sixty five or vpns, because that was really what everybody was thinking about. And so I think everybody knew remote working or work from anywhere was wasgoing to happen and the push the cloud was going to happen. You know, it just happened five years faster and it happened all at once, likeyou know, and so many industries where just the covid just accelerated trends thatwere already happening. And so this was a real challenge, right because wefundamentally had spent a lot of time making side glass work well with traditional networkingequipment like, for the firewalls, Cisco...

Routers, Sofas firewalls, you know, Cisco Swhich is check point like like those types of things. Now itdidn't mean that we weren't to wear of the cloud. Obviously part of ourwhole value proposition was we ran in the clouds. So we're, you know, we're keenly aware of the cloud, but just what we saw is theopportunity at that time was really about all these mid market companies who had theseoffices that couldn't be easily secured by existing solutions. But you know, allthe sudde and all of these customers are now like hey, that's great,but we're working from home now. So how can you? Initially they're like, we're not doing anything but Survin, and now they're like, you know, how do you solve that challenge? Right? So the thing that sortof has happened when we think about the network going forward is that the centerof the network used to be kind of up like physical space, like anoffice or a data center, but now the center of the office is asa person like. Really the company is a collection of people and they workhowever they work and wherever they work. So we had a whole suite ofartificial intelligence and machine learning algorithms that were all about building baselines on activities.And so the main activity that we're building baselines on his network activity right thismachine is so netflow is really like this Ip address talks to that Ip addressfor this period of time over this protocol, and it's like learning on that andfinding anomalies and you know, to got data scientist who knows stuff betterthan idea, but that's basically what they're they're learning on and they're saying,well, that's that's strange, in this complicated in clever way. So thefirst thing that we had to do is to say, well, well,okay, well, we can no longer be learning solely about networks and IPaddresses, because that's not really where the night because those anomalies won't mean anythinganymore. Because, you know, if somebody comes over of the VPN,like, what's their IP address like?...

Is it really about that IP address? Now it's right, it's actually really about that user. Or if I'mup in off this three hundred and sixty five and I'm looking for weird things, like it's about the user. So the whole notion, our whole ideaabout what a network was and what and what was the center and Network ChangeRight. And so we had this realization. And Look, we're not the onlypeople had this realization. I mean this is the zero trust story,right. Zero Trust is really assumed that the network is hostile and orient everythingaround users, devices and services. So this is where we were certainly headed. But you know, I'm really surprised that like we had to do itthis year, and so quickly. So what that meant for us in practicewas was a couple of different things. Right, we had to go ingestnew types of data, whereas before we were solwly focused on ingesting network data, and we had to analyze holding on build a whole new set of baselinesaround that data, a whole set of new UI's. I mean just,you know, kind of re Orient the whole product, you know, aroundusers and you know, to be fair, we cat we kind of had todo it while we're still supporting these network pieces, because you fundamentally it'snot. There are some companies that are a hundred percent like I, reallysee everything the network lands. There are some companies, you know, whosee literally everything for the user land. But the realities most of the companieswho you know, we're talking to. We talked about the smaller banks,O, those county governments, are those manufacturers. I mean they still havea physical presence that they care about, but they also have remote working andthings like that. So so we have to do the networks up, wehave the user stuff and now we have to also work on building your strongcorrelation between kind of what's going on in the network and what's going on inthe users as well. So so it sounds like you needed to sort ofadd some additional features and functionality to your...

APP to support these changing customer needs. How will you able to innovate at such speeds to get these new featuresout to the market? Yeah, so I'm in a sidelass for for years. Right. So when I joined side glass it was really kind of agovernment research project and I would say they're I think it's a funny story,but you know, the the job I did before I was at seigoys wasa company called conjure, and conjure was in the devop set, devop space, secrets management space, and we exited and got bought by cyber Ark.And so prior to joining sideguys, I've been spending all my time kind ofa wash in sort of devops automation, because that was really the key andconjure was about machine identity at scale. And so I started at sideglass onmy on my first day, and we had a mean it was a SASSapplication. I'll make it's a podcast because you can't see my air, youknow, and I'm like, oh, that's cool, like you like coolclouds ass, like that's awesome. How can I help? I like tohelp. I like to learn, to like to dig in and it itwas like a very I was like new here, I just want to kindof understand. So what you know, what can I do to help?Right, and so what I got back was, yeah, well, ifyou could just like ssh into each one of these boxes and get the logfiles and pull them down and see if there's any errors like, that wouldbe like super health. And I was like like by hand, like literallygo to like into these machines and like pull the logs down and like lookat the sun, like, you know, honestly, like coming from from conjure, I mean I felt like I was a man from the future,you know. But you know, the reality was, you know, conjurewas a leading edge start up. I was talking to all these sort ofleading edge companies and you realize that, you know, not everybody, andit's going back. Four years ago was like Netflix, you know, likefully CICD or or any of that stuff. So we spent a lot of timeprior to two thousand and twenty just...

...investing in building out a proper SASSmulti tenant, you know, architecture, right. So we are in aws, but the vast majority of our processing is done in Coubernetti's. So Imean, so a question we get often is, you know, the Aithat you guys have, is that just sage maker some Amazon piece? Soit's not. Actually it's our own sort of maybe our own algorithms, butour own sort of implementation and it's not just sort of off the shelf stuff. Is actually a hard problem, although that's probably a topic for the datascience podcast. But so we've got all the stuff running basically, you know, in containers now in Coubernetti's and couple clusters that are running in Amazon itand we had and we had made that investment as a company to get tothe point where we were delivering at a much higher velocity that were able tosort of we got a very solid devops team, we've got a lot oflike really good monitoring capabilities in place and we've built strong capabilities in our CISHDpipeline, most of which Ankins, to to be able to kind of deliversoftware kind of independently and go pretty fast. I mean, I think the thingthat you have to recognize that a lot of people in this space areactually physical appliances. So you know, I mean I wish my velocity wasfaster, but like we can deliver kind we can push stuff out pretty muchon demand whenever we want, whereas I've got competitors in the space or literallyshipping physical appliances to put physical appliances and people's networks and analyze the traffic.So like by that measure, you know, our Dev ops velocity is awesome.And so we've got everything and you know, we're sort of like alwayswithin striking distance. It's sort of like...

...our idea. They're like if wehad to like really go make that you faster, we could do it wheneverwe wanted. So we've got like a thoughtful approach to our like delivery pipeline. We've got it to where it's like more than fast enough to stay aheadof the of the competition. We've got an architecture which is basically SASS based, so don't have any real like heavy on premise deployment collectors. Yeah,when I when I got here, the thinking with there was like a physicalbox that we occasionally put in people's networks. We've really gotten away from any ofthat. So, you know, basically, by spending the last threeyears of getting us from a not so high velocity kind of delivery mechanism toomuch more of devops, continuous delivery SASS platform. When we started talking aboutall these changes, it was really just about me, honestly, how fastwe could sort of think about what needed to be done and how fast wecould sort of go and execute. There was very few sort of infrastructure oroperational, you know, hurdles in our way. Probably the only thing thatyou know, was gated is some of the data science problems that we talkedabout, you know, and they're hard, right, and we've got an awesometeam of data sign into this and they're very, you know, clever, and so they come up with sort of good solutions. But from USsoftware delivery in operations perspective, we really were able to just kind of belike all right, you know, I got a Tweetingestin pipeline, so willput a different container and there like we got to scale this out like justthere was nothing standing in our way and because we're already in the in thecloud, I think we're actually able to be quite responsive to what was avery dramatic shift in our market and the and the needs of our customer rights. You you had the technologies, the the processes in place to enable thisspeed to market during the last twelve months. Yep. So if I'm about softwareleader at a software, high growth software company, what advice do youhave for them if they're looking to move...

...a little quicker than what they currentlyare? Yeah, I mean it's a sort of easier said than done thing. Obviously. I think what we've tried to do is to really cut downthe distance between the engineering team and the customer. That fundamentally, engineers wantto build stuff that people use and get value out of and like that.Certainly you know, certainly our team does. I think you know, most softwareengineers want to want to build something that people like and get and getvalue. I think sometimes there can be a disconnect, there could be alack of understanding, not willful, just by the nature of Hey, I'mtalking to more customers and your sort of whatever and you don't understand and whyam I asking for that? You know. So what I've just tried to dois to try to get the end you know, the engineering leadership,the product management leadership, the engineers like as close to the customers as possiblebecause I think ultimately they will do the right thing. I think they understandthat. If, like they just understand, you know, what people want,they're going to go do that. So I think this was like sucha profound change for us that, you know, we had to make aconsiderable effort to just like get people to sort of understand the types of customers. I mean, look in the early days, I mean the customer tolllyshifted, right. We had set of people who are working at sort oflike government research speed, you know, and that was like a huge change. And so some of that was just getting them to understand that they hadto be building a comercial product. Is Definitely doing commercial government research. Butas we sort of pivoted or shifted through this covid it was really about justgetting them closer to so they could actually understand the problem. And now whatI would say is the beauty of assass platform is that's not that hard,right, like all the Datas, they're like people are using the applicating weinstrumented our application. We brought in a...

...customer success platform from another startup calledKoala, where we sort of track, you know, what's going on andwhere are they going and where are they getting stuck? I mean, there'sother tools of people can use there as well, but that's the one thatwe pick. And so I guess you fundamentally approached. There is. It'sjust like you gotta like get engineers bought into the thing. There's lots ofways to get them bought in. Engineers a lot engineers like data. Ilike data. So you know, like just show them the things, likethey'll get it right, you know. And so it is change and it'shard, but I think you just have to trust that people, given kindof the same information that you have, would come to a reasonable I meanthey may had, to be honest a lot. I mean, I'm notasking them to come the same conclusion I come to, but I just wantthem, I mean that's where we have great discussions, but I just wantthem to have some of the same information so that they can understand why we'redoing it. I mean, I think also in a startup software company,like we're all on the same mission, right, so you just have tolike, guys, the mission here is we got to make these customers successful. I think they then understand what those customers are like. Again, alot of them, you know, if you're used to building software that's goingto work for a huge enterprise footprint versus building software which is more sass basedor maybe more user driven. There's a different set of assumptions when you thinkabout the software and usability and things like that. So I just think it'slike, you know, trust to people that you have tell them about themission, make sure that they understand, get them sort of close to thecustomers so they can have to kind of see it from themselves and then,you know, you do after then say okay, guys, now, youknow now we have to, you know, deliver and you know, at theend of the day, like we're just we're all at side glass tohelp keep these customers safe and I think we get a lot of sap stuffthe bad guys, right. Yeah, I mean this is it is ascourge, right, this like cyber like the cyber criminals. At all thestuff which is happening. It is just...

...so brutal and you know all theyou know the cost of a ransomware attack and what it costs and things likethat and you know, I know shadows Offtsa you know, small company toAwesome Company. You know, just imagine, you know what a several hundred thousanddollar, you know, blip and in a business does for, youknow, companies these sizes. I mean it's just our governments. It's brutal. So I think we just see that as so like our mission, likewhat we're really trying to do here, and the engineers are bought into thatand then we can, let me, get satisfaction out of, you know, delighted customers who are, you know, getting value out of the product,who are engaged in helping us make it better, who are honestly buyingand renewing the software, you know right, helping us build something, you know, successful and sustainable. Yeah, I think you're in a very interestingmarket your you're saving a segment of that market that you know has been maybeneglected in the past. And as these attacks stop, you know, gettingmore and more intense than you know, these these smaller companies are going toneed the help. So, you know, thinking about the next five year forcyclass and the Vision, where do you see cyclass, you know,in the market? Yeah, I mean I wish the answer was and allthe cybercomes going to stop and we go find another job like that would beawesome. I mean right, but unfortunate. Right. So as seeing that's notgoing to happen. I think what we're hearing from our customers is thedirection that we're on is right, that were delivering by bringing in the sortof network, by bringing in the users. I think what they would like tosee us do is just kind of like more, right. So,bring in more threaten intelligence, bring in more endpoint data. Just, youknow, help me simplify. I mean it's the thing that we've seen,which is amazing, is they just want help, right, tell me whatto do, give me more at you know, give me your reports thatare more actional. You make remediation more...

...actionable, and so, you know, I think we're just trying to make that. You know, we sortof that skinny shop. I'll make air quotes skin we talked this one greatcustomer in Canady. He's like, I'm a skinny shop. My eyes can'tbe everywhere. That's sort of like, you know, and it's actually amazing. Ross, we talked to a guy the other day and he's like Iam the shop. So if don't, don't tell me me and my team. It's like me right, the like small teams. Yeah, yeah,it's like I'm the guy, right. So we just keep that guy inmind or Gal and it's like what can we do to make that person successful? And so we just see a pretty wide open space here. As yousaid, it's been fairly neglected by a lot of these big, big vendors. The big thing which is happening overall in Cybersecurity is there's a bit ofa like convergence. Right. So we started in the network lane. Nowwe're doing some user stuff. You know, we'll probably have to which, honestly, may I think all I ever try to do is just be humbleenough to like listen to the customers, like hey, you, could youdo this, could you do that? And you know, honestly, mosttime the antswery short, and we should. So what I hear from them is, help me get a few more logs into my system, like helpme get my web application firewall logs in here. Help me get my casbe log you like a few more logs in here, my firewall logs?That would be helpful. Help you pull some more endpoint information in here.That would be helpful. So is that the you know, at that point? Are we still, you know, in this like network detecting response space? Are we in some other sort of detext response space? I'm not superhung up, to be honest, on those kind of labels. Those aremore like gardener terms and honestly a lot of the people who we sell toaren't like super obsessed with those. We go with those labels and those andthose market terms. So I think all that we're really going to try todo is delight those customers, like really just try to make sure that we'redelivering a valuable service for them, that's...

...help them, keep them safe andjust keep listening to them and to try to keep delivering a really great experienceand, you know, a valuable product for them. Yeah, for yourscump, because I'd be. The reality is there are so many of these, you know, smaller companies who neat it. We need something right andso we see a we see a fantastic opportunity for the company for years tocome. Oh Josh, it's been a pleasure having you on our show today. You're doing some great work. You're really saving a market that has beenunder served for many years. So thanks for joining us. I really appreciateyou time. Yeah, Ross, thanks so much for having me on thePODCAST application modernization is sponsored by Red Hat, the world's leading provider of enterprise opensource solutions, including high performing Linux, cloud, container and COUBERNETTI's technologies.Thanks for listening to application modernization, a podcast for high growth software companies. Don't forget to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast player so younever miss an episode, and, if you use apple podcasts, do usa favor and leave a quick rating by tapping the stars. Join US onthe next episode to learn more about modernizing your infrastructure and applications for growth.Until next time,.

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