Making the Internet More Human

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The emergence of digital spaces augmenting social interactions is taking over the planet. Avatars represent the true identity of the most important contributor to the internet. What happened to learning about the actual human being behind the keyboard or smartphone?

But what if we could make the internet more human? What if it felt like stepping into someone’s front door? Where you see their pictures, their books, their records, and get a good feel for who they are as a HUMAN, not an avatar.

Matt Shackleford is doing just that. Matt is a co-founder at Abode, and was a guest on the latest episode of Application Modernization. He talked to us all about:

  • The startup he’s launching aimed at bridging the gap between Web 2 and Web 3
  • Why he’s aiming to make the internet more human
  • How we can break free from being “content curators” and be “humans” online again

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You are listening to application modernization, a show that spotlights the forward thinking leaders of Highgro software companies. From scaling applications and accelerating time to market to avoiding expensive license and costs, we discuss how you can innovate with new technology and forward thinking processes and save some cash in the process. Let's get into it. Thanks for listening to the application modernization podcasts presented by shadow soft. I'm your host, Nick Mark Reli. Today we spoke to Matt Shackelford. He is one of the principles at abode, which is a startup that lives in between web two and three, so call it web two five, basically trying to bring humanity to the social platform, bringing people back into the discussion. So really interesting conversation about where that world is going, why it matters, some of the latest developments in acquisitions related to twitter, and that's a great friend of mine. So it was a really interesting conversation, stuff that we talk about all the time offline. So hopefully all enjoy once again, thanks for Red Hat for continuing to support the PODCAST. Listen to our conversation with Matt. Matt, thanks for joining the PODCAST. That absolutely mant thanks for having me on sided to talk about a bunch of them. So, just for our listeners, Matt and are good friends. DISCLAIMER GETS A disclaimer for sure, but we're going to been amply warm more about it that it. Yeah, kidding, we don't edit anything here. So, Matt, why don't you give a little intro to our listeners, a little background on you? Yep, so I have a creative flash like brand background. Started my career. We actually work together the same ID company. My first job I was a marketing intern, servant intern, and I loved it and they caught win that I could do some graphic design, so they started leveraging my in dollar an hour intern skills to be a do more work. So that that's our that's our background. So design background, brand, marketing, all that good stuff, and that led me to ten years ago I started a basically a creative firm where I manage some high end graphic designers. We do a bunch of work for a couple like small brands you probably haven't heard of, like starbucks and target and companies like that, and we do kinds of brand in campaign and so I kind of play in the creative business world a little left ring and right braining. God, that's my that's my background. A little brands, a little brands. starbucks never heard of we've never heard of them. Cool. Yeah, so now you're you've got a project that you're working on. Yeo, that obviously I know about. This is why I wanted to have on the podcast. But tell us what you can about that. Yeah, absolutely, I can tell you. I can tell you everything about it. So we, I'm launching a start up with a couple other cofounders. Were launching a probably late this spring or this summer, depending on, you know, how the engineering side goes. Always takes longer to build things. And you want our weightlist is live now. But what we're building is what we think is kind of the bridge between where we are in web two, point Oh, with social media and all the things that go along with web, to technologies, everything being very mobile friendly, living on, you know, smartphones, and I believe what we're building is kind of the...

...bridge from web to to where I think the whole world is going with web three. We are in those kind of early early days of web three with crypto and blockchain and NFT's and I think this whole conversation right now is being turned into an nfte. I think we are. It's just an init set. It's probably getting minted. This isn't is being sting on right now chain. It's going to be a one of one, very expensive, very, very expensive. It's going to be in the millions pass. So yeah, we were creating a product. You know, I ask myself this question last winter, like okay, I start buying these NFTS, or say go to dizzy world, which you hate dissy worlds. You're not going to go there. Do not. But if you went to dizzy world, they're like, Hey, here's an nft for visiting the part today. Like you can't pay for it. It just was kind of like a digital souvenir artifact. Like I start collecting pay for who, right exactly, are bad for the micro chip right in my forehead, I mean, I mean, I'm into it. So, like I get these entities. I asked myself, like what do I do with it? What do I like? I posted on my instagram page no, because like that's not really that interesting. And then they got me thinking a bigger conversation of like what if we had a place online that felt like a home for our lives that we lived online. So we have our houses, we have our homes that you walk into them say everything about us. Maybe the outside doesn't, but when you walk into somebody's home, apartment, townhouse, whatever, wherever they live, it says everything about who they are, what they're interested in. You know, I have this kind of philosophical belief that like what we're interested and is just really an outward expression of who we are as people. So I can tell a lot about you as a person by the books, you like, the movies, you like sports teams, you cheer for the music you listen to, the photos you put us on Instagram, that tweet, they on twitter, the videos that you like on you. We can pull a lot about people by their interests and if we look at our online lives, there's really not like a home base that we can go to to be like hey, this is this is Matt Shackleford or this is Nick Marcarelli. This is everything that makes them a human being and I can get to know this person by seeing what they're interested in and I we kind of use like a facebook, or we kind of use an instagram or professionally, we kind of use linkedin for all these different things, but we, I find myself like we're spending all these plates with technology, but there's not, what one place on the Internet that I can find everything out about Nick Mark Eli, under one under one roof. And I think because our lives are not they're getting more digital, not less digital. I'm like men, it would be really cool to have a home on the Internet that reflected me. And then simultaneously, like it doesn't take a rocket, scientist observed how crazy polarize the Internet has become. Like, you know, companies like turned us into from human beings more into the data points. Like I feel like right we're all kind of like chum for the Algorithm, whether we white like it or not, and in there's a lot of pros to that, like the Algorithm has done a lot of great things, but it's also brought out some crazy things and it it's made us human beings less human on the Internet. So we are on this mission to create, you know, to make the Internet more human. So our project is called abode, got social. That's our domain. So abode is this is your home on the Internet, and social is is we want to make the Internet more human. We want we see this place online where I can interact with another human being based on common interests and not be so tribalized in my...

...camp, because I look at you and I'm like, I don't, I don't know anything about you, but I just see you, know, all the tweets, two posts, and I don't I don't agree with you, and it's I'll never get to know you as a human like I don't know what you're interested is human being. I've just for said whatever the algorithm puts out. So abode is a place where you can create a home for your digital life. You can bring more of your real physical life into your digital life. We aren't creating a product that we see people escaping their physical lives do into this digital world. Rather, we're creating a place where people could bring their their real lives, the real physical lives, and make that more representative of who they are online. So, like I said, we're in the really early days of that. Are Weightless just launched for our private data which is going to be launching in the next like month or two. So yeah, that's just like the fire hose. We want to make the Internet more human and we want to give people a home on the Internet that they have control over and that reflects who they are as human means. So, as we've you know, we've talked about your project over the months and you know what, what I think is interesting is that we have all these stylos, the social platforms. Yep, right, we post pictures and videos on instagram or tick tock or snap. I think the kids will do that. Maybe you see the snap drone they just announced the WHO there's like a new like drone that's a pocket size that will like follow you to capture all your content so you can leverage or content for the algorithm. We're all we're not. We're not people anymore. Were content creators in content curators. If a drone followed me around, that go that kind of goes to a lot of meetings. Yeah, they would be really disappointed, although it'd probably be a really hot snap acount. They'd be like meetings, guy. Yeah, my drone would be like Goddy as a small bladder. He is always going to the bathroom. Didn't he just go to the bathroom? I think that would be top ten. Yeah. So we have these slows and then, like twitter is the thing where you go out and you say something and you just send it into the easy easy. Talking about twitter right now. Well, we'll get to that. We'll get to that. FACEBOOK is for connecting with your grandmother mostly, to be honest, I use facebook to just make sure birthdays of my friends and likes my father and to use a market place. Market Place. Yeah, yeah, that's that's like literally the only good thing facebook is created in the past I don't know, five, six years. The market place is very body, lots of bots. Yeah, it's a little weird, but basically we, you know, we've had this evolution of all these social platform options and it's actually fracture our society into little groups of people. Yeah, you know, many millions or whatever, but you know, you look back in the day, when you look at my space, everybody was on my space, its it, and then facebook came and I was like, Hey, we're going to be, you know, the school thing, the college thing, and then it became, you know, everything, and then you know twitter. It's funny about my space because there's actually this you know, we're in our mid S, so like my space came like the tail end of our educational fives, but there's like this resurgence among like people like late s to late s that really actually missed my space, because what was my space about? It was like, if you knew it tad bill been a code, you could customize that place. Like your my space page totally reflected everything about you. Yep, you put some of your favorite buds on there, you put the music you liked, you put the new movies, like you pasted all that stuff and it was like you literally connected with deep bull over mutual interest. Yep, and it was like it...

...was the fun part of like meeting Strangers Online, because you're like, well, you like the same band, you like the same movies, you like the same music, right, this is awesome, and someone would sight in your DM's and it was like the most exciting thing because you're like, oh, I just got a new friend, because it was like real people connecting with people that they didn't know, but it was like the common interest that brought people together. It was the first it was the first thing that really allowed us to connect over the wire. Correct when you look at you know, when web started, at the beginning Ofcom you know, we had a well or prodigy and there were chat rooms, but you were still chatting with like Sally likes turn ups twelve. Right, right, there wasn't. There wasn't any who like sturnupsurs worth. I don't know much like a beat. Yeah, beat, have beat, beat, have flavor. I don't know. He's like Derek dirt. Yeah. So when we when we started to, you know, make that evolution to be, you know, the kind of the first social platform, you know, it was like how do we go from chat to a place? And you know, you even look at this and like and regular business to right, like starbucks whole mission back in the day that company would never heard of was to create the third place. You have home, you have work and then you have the third place. Yeah, right, and anybody's ever were the book, it's quite good, you know. So like the third place kind of a replaced by the social plastform. Right, they are end the Internet. When the Internet hit got on our phones, it's like that's when it was over. It took that place because when, even when my space is around, you had to be on your computer. True, but then, like when blackberry started, like putting the edge network and Glibal browsing on a device and then obviously the IPN blue open, right, and it's like, Oh, I can just stay home and experience the world on my phone, and I think that's how a lot of people today live. Right. So you look at the emergence for all these and that's it. Go on for that's not going legs. Yeah, that's not going away. So how do we our lies are if, if we're continue to get increasingly more digital, how do we bring more humanity? Well, we don't even have a back in such directory to navigate to what that is, right. So like when when you talk about a boat, what you guys are trying to do? You know, I see this is a little bit of a directory. Like lots of people using lake tree, for example, totally and they're in there. You know, social profiles, you know if they're selling something, if they have a blog, if they sort of an appropriate things. I could talk about, like there's there's a way to navigate around, but like link tree is litterally just a page just got a bunch of links on. Yeah, it's amazing that there are company and it's like and it's like I'm not going to click on. I'm not going to click on just like a friends linked tree. Sure, but I I'm going to if the person is a brand, they're an influencer then, and I want to be influenced by what they're influencing. Then I'll clip that week tree of influence, sure, and partake of the tree of influence that it's your influential life. It cookie, yeah, and buy another pair of workout shorts and a pan that I don't need. Trying to get the podcast sponsored I made and the yeah made and are you're listening? I Love Your Best Fab letics. please. Where the Kevin Heart of Ottomization? Modernization, easy. What we're talking about? Yes, application modernization, where everywhere we're not talking about applications or modernization. We're talking about but in the sense we are. We are in a round about Kund away. So when you take when you take all these platforms, Yep, and you just stroll down to whereas the place I go to understand more about that, yeah, more about neck or more about Joe Yourself, doesn't really exist. It doesn't exist. And so a vote is trying to I think in the short term we're...

...trying to meet people where they are, which is in the wind space. But we see a bigger vision of letting people carve out a home on the Internet that reflects who they are. That reflects their interests and can connect with people who want to truly interact on a personal human level. And so yeah, I mean like day one, we we're not fighting the instagrams and the twitterers and all that. We connected with their APIS. So with thode, like you can connect your instagram account and see your photos like in this really cool we've built. We're building this cool like d room that's like this is your actual digital home. But then you can also see it kind of like a into box board of like steeing. So I can see your instagram feed, you can connect your twitter account, you can connect your youtube account, but your playlist in or your favorite videos. You can connect your spotify playlists. You can get your spotify podcast, you can you tap the Google librries. You can put your favorite books, favorite movies, whatever you want in there. So we're trying to meet people. So that way you could use instead of saying hey, look at my link tree, it's like this is my bode. But then the cool thing is like if you're a big fan of Lebron James Right, and you're like, oh, follow Lebron on twitter and instagram because I want to see what Lebron is doing and what Lebron is saying, but I never think to see if Lebron is on spotify. Right, yeah, but it would be cool to know, like what's Lebron listening to? Sure, it'd be cool to know. Like you know, when he used to make the playoffs, he would read books easy and he'd read them upside down. It's incredible. But like I always have page three. I'd be interested to know like what Lebron reads fruit pages and you know what the starbucks look the third place, third place, but like, but, like, wouldn't you kind of want to know like what like of Peter Teal is reading? For sure, but like you never go to think. I wonder if Peter Deals on the good reads. Maybe he is. But if we went to Peter Deals of bode and I can see what Peter Deal is listening to when he's reading and what he's into, well, I that would be pretty cool. But I don't think to like, because everything is so silent, like said in desperate I don't think to go look for his spotify playlist, if that even sits. But like, yeah, well, you'll see people that have large brands tim first. Yeah, big brand, right, so he has this paid newsletter press. He spends like four hours a week working on it, probably only for only for so he takes, you know, a membership point of view, to his business comps. Heyy, would you like to know about all the things that I think are cool and I would recommend join my newsletter? Like substact is kind of soaking up that space right now. Yah, right, it's kind of it's kind of interesting to subsct. Sub stact is like replacing traditional journals. Yeah, maybe is a comp for that, but at the end of the day, substack is just a platform to allow people to monetize membership. Yeah, create a page, create a pay wall to get into their thoughts. Right. So there's a lot of that going on, which is cool, which is great, but that's a lot of or and I think it I think it scratches the itch of like I want to see what makes people people online and I want to connect with the real human beings and I like to connect with individuals and I like to see what individuals think and what they are into. Not so much corporate opinions, sure, but I don't I don't need to know what Burger King's take is on social justice. Like I don't. I just don't care, right. But like you care about the Walker. Yeah, I care about the wopper, which I still don't care about that. But,...

...like, I think it's more interesting to be like what do, what do individuals think would have been? Individuals like what are they? What are they into? Because I'm an individual on a person felt. So I want to connect with people on that level. So and also like for for us, like what we're building is we want it to be fun. Like eventually you'll be able to customize and build the home online the way that you want. We're not going to overwhelm our users too early, to early on. But like the Internet, you really at his core is a place to like build things and to have fun into, like make things, into be curious, not just to go on and just consume, consume, consume, but also like create and make and build stuff. I think that is is one of the coolest things about the Internet. So we're trying to just come back to some of those, I think roots that as a society that we've interrupted from right now. That makes sense. So for had to some are eyes. A boat is really trying to tackle the web. Two point five of yeah, we want to, we want to be the we want to take we want to meet people where they are in web to and take them into webt. You know, one day you will be able to buy stuff like in a market place on a boat, put into your boat. Very cool. We see it like integrating where if you have a if you have a home on a boat, that you could actually meant that on the block game. I don't think it's super relevant right now where we are, but we will get to that place because if you are a human being and you participate online in some way, shape or form, you are a perfect person to play with and use a vote. So we want to meet people where there in web to and go on this journey together, all of us, two, web three. And while we're doing that, we want to make the Internet more human, and the way we see doing that is giving people a place in a platform and the ability to create a home for themselves online that reflects who they are as people in real life online. So this is kind of the work of many, many months of ideation and yeah, over a here. You know, we have an idea and a concept. Can you share maybe the first iteration of the concept? All two minutes where we're trying to solve for something and how you pivot it into yeah, that's for me to days. That's that's pretty interesting for men and iddosition and innovation perspective, like how do you go build something? Yeah, they're always tweaking right. Yes, my cofounder, Barn Sweetman, is an engineer, designer, investor, so it's a great guy to have as a cofounder. I've more probably the philosophical, creative type guy. And so we started building this product where we're like hey, we're going to build this like blank Slate d tool where people can go in and build a home, like a room, a home online and build with like d tools. And we quickly realize, wow, that's really overwhelming. So we need to like dial back, like we probably want to be more square space than we are, like word pressed, like in our functionality. And then we got really excited about NFTS. So then we're like cool, like let's build, let's build away our own market place on a boat so you can come in. At one point we had launched you could come in and buy cryptocurrency in a bode, you can min nft's and abode and you can build basically in a gallery, showcase room for your nfts and abode in the whole thing. And what we quickly realized was most of the NFT community lives on twitter and on discord, and so we try to like share our project with them for a significant amount of time. And really, when we were really trying to embed ourselves in really serve that community, we realize how much they did not want is there. There it felt like. It felt like you were like walking into the Doune Ein Dragons Club at...

...high school, in high school which I never played dungeons and dragons, and part of it is like man, these people like, for whatever reason, if they didn't want you there, like they weren't going to let you in. Yep, and it was a very like insular community and I'm like, well, this is like exactly the opposite of what we're trying to do, like we're not trying to create a product for a tiny little group of niche users that the whole world isn't interested in, like we want to create a product that really serves the interests of human being users, not just looking at people as users, but like human that is the user. So we curickly realize we didn't want to be exclusively in the nft our nerdspace. We wanted to be a product for for the broader population of people. So that it was a bit of swallowing the pride because we built that product for quite a few months and we shelved it. I think we will integrate some of that later in as a as a boat in the company grows. But yeah, we we pivoted and just came back to our roots of man like, let's give people home on the Internet and make it our mission to make the Internet more human. So even if you find yourself, I don't really see myself needing a home on the Internet, but you resonate with our mission of making it, making our online lives more human than a boat. It's for you and and yet we want we want people that resonate with that mission, especially early on. So, yeah, the pivoting of not having the right product market that it was its huge yeah, we took the l on the sun, cost of time and in work that we put into that and some money and be pivoted and I think we'll find that right product market. That for sure, yeah, might end up being a road map B item on the road will for sure. I think that's cool because I think the journey of building something, feloping something and we're you know, shout US offt you. Yes, yeah, we do know, consulting in and product we spell. This year we've taken on the task of building our own offer m around things are customers need. It's pretty hard and we it's super hard. It's iterated three or four times since we started, you know, early middle of last year. Yeah, and there's a lot more definition to what we're bring then what you guys are doing. The boat totally and you know. So there's I think the takeaway for the listeners is things are hard. Yeah, I think it's like man as if we're building things, were building companies, were building products or playing with technology. Like I think we just your posture in your mindset into it. It's totally important, especially if you're if you're a CEO or, you know, you're leading a department or be P of a company, like creating the culture within your organization to say, Hey, we're leading first by mission vision, so everybody that company knows where we're going and why we're going there, and having the right people within the organization so people don't resonate with your clear mission, your clear vision. Then, like you need to probably swap some people on the team. Sure, like you need to have the right team culture and then to say hey, as an organization like these are the problems were solving, these are the people that were solving the problem for creating and playing and until we find like, what sticks, so we're going to go do a new venture, a new product and new idea. We're going to look at the what was winning and what was losing. We're going to see if we need to make a modification to where we're losing and make that an adjustment to turn it into a wind or we also look at and say, you know what that's actually like? That's a dead end and we're just going to we're going to write that off as a sunk...

...cost and move towards where the momentum is and where that product market fit is in the market place. So I think it's it's so much about, like, organizational culture and having the right mentality, having that clear mission envision and sticking to it, and I just bailing on it. You know. Well, persistence correct, whether people don't understand it or people don't agree or whatever. Right so makes suffs. Happened this week. The listeners is pretty it's old. Yeah, right, but on the lawn bust in principle has read buy twitter. Really, I know it's weird, right. That fascinating. No, fifty, fifty billion bucks, whatever it was. It's like forty four. I think for forty four it's something as a fifty. By the time it's all said and done, water phase in the week, all the things you tack on at the ends. Wants to tack it all. Six billion dollars of tacking it on. So you know what I what I found interesting about this is we equivalably like Elan Busk, is one of the greatest minds of the last twenty years. Yeah, and you know, maybe when that's all setting done, we might go the one of the brightest minds of a couple of generations. Yeah, doing some like insane stuff. So him buying twitter, while I think is kind of awesome and funny, this is just feels was a little bit like a joke. I'M gonna buy twitter because it needs to be and then I'm going to take a private that. I'm going to take a private it needs relevance, right. So, like I feel like Elan is really signing up for taking something that's dying or not not really thought of is useful or impactful and going there's a platform, there an industry leader at a point maybe they've lost away. I'm curious to see how that's going to happen over the next note, probably eighteen months, right. Yeah, we'll probably close nearly in the year and it's going to take some time to get some new ideas going in there. But you know, the pushback, maybe from a media perspectives, been really interesting and we don't typically talk about the stuff on the podcast, but my podcast and talk about it get yeah, you always edited out later. Yea. So I think it's you know, I think it's interesting that, you know, we look at traditional media and journalism and they go, Oh my God, this is terrible. This is why Elan voding twitter is a terrible idea and I think, you know, it's obviously all related to this kind of fear based culture thing that comes right where someone who's you know, I don't, I don't even know Elon bust like ideology on anything. Yes, really random, and everyone is terrified about a platform that nobody uses. Right. I think it's like I have like four hundred million users and I think instagram and facebook are like a billion billion a half or something right. Yeah, it's fascinating, you know. It's just it's this kind of bizarro world we're living in where everybody's concerned about, you know what the fifth platform. It's going to it's going to change. It'll be unregulated because clearly Alan's like free speech. We want all the opinions out there. Right, you can only tie that tops trump, which we will go to that on this. But I know, you know, at the end of the day, all our social platforms lack honest and Yep, you know, I think that's maybe what I think it's kind of cool about a boat, when you guys are doing over there, is that it's not about messaging, it's about, you know, the human aspects of you know, what makes up a person and their preferences and our music and photos, you know kind of the stuff that makes you you. Yeah, yeah, so, I mean you know that the twitter thing is really interesting because everybody's out the arms, but you know what some of your thoughts...

...around that maybe out, maybe out summarized. Know, you're good. Yeah, I mean I think it's really good I think. I think cancel culture is proving to be toxic for everybody. But it's not great for everybody because the people who, quote unquote, get canceled off of a platform like a facebook or twitter, instagram or whatever, if they don't return to like, you know, some other social media network or whatever, they just a fester and it's like animosity and I think that is never good for a society when you have like a group of people that, even if they're not canceled, have this resentment to big tech and corporations because they aren't allowed to share an opinion that truly is not harmful, but it's being rhetorically through you know reddi rhetoric, being lay old as harmful right, and I think that is that is a fundamental issue. We would all agree as human beings that things like racism or just speaking hateful things against human beings for whatever traits that makes them human. That's just wrong. Like nobody in their right mind would see that as like, oh, something that should be actually done correct right, since and like reason would view that also. You know, yeah, you said like stellatious. I think like things that are just indecent. You know, there's a reason why bathrooms have stalls and walls because there is some privacy that needs to be allowed to people in those places, you know. So I think not everything needs to just be put out there like that and be accessible, especially people who are in like not return enough to handle that kind of stuff. So I think, I think with Elon like, I think he's seeing, like, okay, if you look at the data of like there is there's one group of people that give to certain politicians, that have certain ideologies, that run companies like twitter and facebook and instagram and whatever that don't allow for opposing views and opinions and thoughts to be posted on their platform without, at this point, without consequence and for full blow, Sensor, sure, censorship. Right. So I think like that is that's a problem. It's a problem because you're controlling in suppressing people instead of allowing people to ask questions and say, Hey, you know, these are some rules of the game and like, I don't get to contort and twist and manipulate your words to say something that truly is not racist. I, as a platform owner, can now say, Oh, you know what, that is racist, so you're not allowed to be on it. But for however, time, like as a society, we've all agreed like that, whatever that comment is, it's not it's not racist at all and we don't allow there is no like restoration of people that. If people did do something wrong and they did apologize, like there is no like, Hey, we accept your apology. Please don't do that again, though. It's okay, yeah, good, you better. Like there is no like I can apologize and come back. Yeah, so I think, like I think Elon's like, I think he's pretty I think he's pretty in the middle. I think historically he's probably lean left of center, but that that chasm has widem so he's probably fallen, fallen more into what defines left and right now. Is Probably Right of center, and I think he just wants a fair platform where people can bring opposing and not like cancel each other. I don't know if he's going to be...

...successful or not. I don't know because because I think, I think all it is is going to it's going to create more recoiling and punching back from other platforms and bigger tech and and then even governments. So I think, like you could see, like people who disagree with Elan, maybe they maybe they leave the platform and the people that agree with Elan come coming back to the platform, and so then you still have you know, you call it left and right. If people who are on the left don't like Elan and they leave and all the people on the right who like Elan and like what he's saying, they come back to twitter, well then all you're going to have as a platform that is like late, as a lean, and I think unless people start acting like adults and we bring reason back into the consciousness, like, I'm not sure if Elan will be successful and I think he'll be like men that was a ways of forty five billion bucks. Yeah, I mean it's a fair point. I think we have a mutual interest in the sportscaster who likes to say this on his on. Are you seeking information or affirmation? Yeah, and I think so. Listening. What I think is interesting about that is twitter being their six or platform. Maybe will people will? Will Elan be able to establish truck? Right? We don't trust. We don't trust our newspapers. Yeah, you know, in the S and s we were very young. I think he will, if he sticks to it, like I think, if he sticks without though, like I think he's I think if he sticks with it for, you know, five years, it says like I'm committed to like creating a place, a platform of transparency. So I'm going to try to earn the trust the people who disagree with me and then I'm not going to take the bait of the people who agree with me to like cancel the people that don't agree right, which she has been. He's been very forward about you know. This is this is not the intention around the Hurst order. It's not to try to write the wall of the right correct, which I think is very important for him to say. He's that's how that's how I think people will receive it. That the end of the day. You know, he's not coming in there like we spent the band list, right, it's coming in there to create maybe the referee, the idea of debate. It's like, I mean it's it has a smaller user base, but it does like it's where news breaks the fastest on anything for in the world. So it is like a just probably how I've used a massive news outlet and it is a it is a platform of posting streams of consciousness and thought, an opinion and idea. Right, like people will back their way into using instagram like that or tip talk like that or whatever. But like twitters, where I published, is like the Ledger of public consciousness and thought. So I don't have to have a billion users on twitter to impact a billion people, because people, the four hundred million on twitter, subconsciously will gain their information and their news and their point of view on something and then go disseminate that and share a further on other platforms. Right, that's true. So it would be interesting twitters became a twitter's more of a megaphone, you know. Yeah, it be interesting. became a place of record. That's why I was interesting. Like he talks about maybe wanting to be edit feature and I'm like, you know, unless it's kind of it's interesting because it's like an og blockchain exactly, like...

...because I look, you can't delete it, right, but then, but then, if it's something really bad that you needed delete, somebody's going to screenshot that thing and then they gets posted online and then they get the screenshots gets posted on twitter. So if it's something that truly is like Oh, I need to delete that, like if you have any sort of following, you know. But I think that that comes down leads as are Responsibil so there's there is a yours is like heard. You know, yeah, there is, but you know, it's just my idea, a lawn of for listing. What if it wasn't edible? Yeah, that's why I'm a latable. That's why I like, like you have to think before you get said on that. You know, two hundred and fifty something parameters of text. You know, I need, we need to start putting the responsibility of what's said. Uh Huh, people stay? Yeah, not not the not the mass term. And if it's broad of wall, and my wife has taught me that lesson. That's what waves do. That's exactly right. I think what one thing he could do is extremely lengthened the amount of characters about wild text. Yeah, while I think a hundred forty or two hundred and eighty or whatever is cool and it's an initial stage of like going to the coffee shop to get a coffee and a donut. That's what I post on twitter. Right, hundred forty characters fine, but it is morphed into this place of News and conscious thought. How can I articulate? I mean we've been yapping for however long we've been talking. Now, how can we succinctly put it together a sound, coherent thought and less than three hundred characters? And then we see like the twitter threads and all that stuff. But, like, most people don't read the thread. They like, right, they carry take the tweet what they want. Yeah, so, like people are more real estate. If that's what people are using him for it, let's just give people more real estate to say what they want to say. Yeah, because you know, that's probably a better solve than the edits. They're doing it on facebook and they're doing it on instagram. I mean, you're going to complete this rotation on why you should? Jim Shorts corrects. Doesn't even have play features correct. So I think that's more interesting. Would be. It'd be passing if he sticks to it and yeah, or he's like this isn't worth the effort. I mean to keep building rocket ships. I hope it does. Yeah, something that'll be worth watching. Yep, cool man. Yeah, thanks thanks for having me on. Thanks for jumping in. Hopefully, hopefully the listener thinks this was an interesting conversation. Hopefully I think it's interesting. I like to talk about so agreed. Will Different Vibe here today but hang it up, change it up. It's new things about a man. Application modernization is sponsored by Red Hat, the world's leading provider of enterprise open source solutions, including high performing Linux, cloud, container and couper Netti's technologies. Thanks for listening to application modernization, a podcast for high growth software companies. Don't forget to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast player so you never miss an episode, and if you use apple podcasts, do us a favor and leave a click writing by tapping the stars. Join US on the next episode to learn more about modernizing your infrastructure and applications for growth. Until next time,.

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